Template talk:Drop Rate

(???%)

(???%)

(26.7%)

(34.5%)

(42.2%)

(100%)

0/0[edit]

Could someone please add a special handler for 0/0, to note that drops have not yet been reported but that they should be? Thanks. --Alephnot 16:39, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean disclaimer note? I feel the current "low" disclaimer note pretty much covers it for 0/0. That and if you can't read 0/0 (0%) and see that no one has reported kills... they probably aren't going to interpret the information intelligently anyway. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 18:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

No; I mean changing it from exactly what you showed: "0 / 0 (Division by zero%)". --Alephnot 19:25, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Lemme test around with it, add another condition for "total kills = 0". --User:Chrisjander/Sig 19:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and leaving no parameters gives the (now) first bit. That was already there as part of the functionality. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 19:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

TYVM --Alephnot 19:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Where to add[edit]

I've noticed on recent adds of this template that it has been put on for all drops of the mob. While this may be true information, for example I don't think people care how many times Rabbit Hide drops off of Jaggedy-Eared Jack. Most are only interested in the drop rates of Rabbit Charm. Do you think the drop rate info should go for what is considered the "rare" or sought out item(s) of the mob?

Another idea I had, I don't think the rate info should be calculated on the main layout of the article. It is ok to be on the main page of the article but there should be a separate table off to the side with the 'rare' drops listed and the calculated drop rates. Therefore the original layout explaining the mob details and all of it's drops is preserved, then the 'additional info' can be viewed off to the side, similar to how additional notes are done under the main infobox. What do you think? --User:Wayka/Sig 17:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it fits well in the drops area. The template adapts itself once the values reach an acceptable level of accuracy. As for the other drops, why not list them? While most people wouldn't care, it's still info. The template could even be used to monitor regular mob drop rates (though with dedicated farmers reporting info, the acceptable level of total kills can be reached pretty quickly). I don't think there's a need to complain about reporting too much information, when it takes up so little space (and makes all the drops look the same in format). --User:Chrisjander/Sig 17:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

With the few updates to some pages it is looking better now. Let's just hope that people make sure they report accurately and they update all items and not just one, meaning that if JEJ drops a Rabbit Charm but not a Rabbit Hide on one kill, they need to update the 'total kills' for both drops and not just the Rabbit Charm. --User:Wayka/Sig 22:51, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Basically that's what I'm hoping for. But if they don't, I'm not going to cry over it. Accuracy is still determined by total kills, so if the total kills for the hide are low, but the charm is high, the charm drop rate is more accurate. In the end, it's easier when the total kill number is the same on all the items, but the accuracy isn't affected. --Team BLU Squad 22:57, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, what BLU said. Accuracy won't be hurt by it, but it's still good to have. It's when the potential data gets lost on mobs that have more than one unique drop that makes me wince. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 22:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

"Unacceptable" accuracy[edit]

I think maybe we should change the display for reported kills under 100. Seems people are misinterpreting how we're using the template. Perhaps it should just display that we're gathering data, and to please add data to the tally. Then once it reaches 100+, it will then start displaying a relatively accurate percentage. Thoughts? --User:Chrisjander/Sig 21:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was thinking thinking the same thing. I think if there's less than 100 kills, the the drop should either display some sort of "Information Needed" symbol (perhaps a unique one?), with appropriate hovertext and the drop/kill ratio, or simply not show anything. At 100 kills, I think the drop rate % should show up in gray, with a brief hovertext disclaimer and the drop/kill ratio and at 500 kills, the drop rate should appears as normal, with simple or no hovertext. That way, it should be a little less confusing/misleading and give it a cleaner look. ~ Karuberu 00:45, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I mocked up our existing code in my sandbox, made a few changes. I think it works well. Take a look at how different values are displayed in User talk:Chrisjander/Sandbox. You'll notice the one with only 3 kills, while it does still display the percentage, clearly states that it's inaccurate in both the message displayed and the hovertext. Also, the hovertext is now more specific as to how inaccurate it is. The rest of the code is unchanged. I suppose we could also have it get rid of the percent for that, but I kind of like it there anyway, and it would require alot more messing around with the code. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 00:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

User:Karuberu/Template Sandbox shows what I was thinking of (examples are on the talk page). The "Information Needed" icon is only temporary; it would need to be replaced with a unique icon so people don't get confused. I kinda like the "More Data Needed" text in your template, but it may take up too much space when used on monster pages (or cause some confusion like the "Information Needed" icon). ~ Karuberu 01:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it takes up much more room than "??? / ??? (???%) [i]", and I think it's a bit more obvious as to its intent. An icon, even if it's a new one, won't necessarily help. If people aren't going to check the hovertext, then they won't check it for an image, and "More Data Needed" would be more self explanatory. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 02:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I do like some of your messages better though. Perhaps for < 100 we can use "More Data Needed", as an incentive that this project needs attention. After that it can go to just the grayed percent, with the data displayed in hovertext. and then after 500+ the black text, though I think we should still employ the raw data gathered as part of the hovertext. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 02:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps something like "(20%)More data needed" would work? I'd like it to be clear that the "More Data Needed" is for the drop rate and not for any information that may be next to the Drop Rate. ~ Karuberu 03:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

That works. Work it into your sandbox, since you have all the other messages programmed already, and we'll take a look. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 03:41, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Done. I also made "0" have the same result as not entering anything, so that "Division by zero" error won't show up. ~ Karuberu 04:50, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, lets go with what you have now. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 13:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Multiple Drops of the same item[edit]

If one kill drops multiple of the same item (even if the common drops) I think it should only be listed as one drop per kill. Listing multiple drops for one kill looks like it will skewer results. If you agree please list this in the help section. --User:Wayka/Sig 03:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you mean? Example? --User:Chrisjander/Sig 03:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Battering Ram always drops 3 Ram Skins, if you list 3 drops for one kill it will go greater than 100%. --User:Wayka/Sig 03:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Well, with this example I can refute it entirely. It does not always drop 3, but it will so frequently drop multiples that it should be worth noting. The way to remedy this is to list it as a single item drop, and then record drops/kill (which if it normally drops multiples all the time, it will report a >100% drop rate, which would be accurate). I've had multiple drops of horns as well as skins, and sometimes only one skin, or none. But most of the time it will drop multiple skins. If we list the drop as "Ram Skin" instead of "Ram Skin (x3)", and list it as having a drop rate of 256%, then that would indicate that it normally drops multiples. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 03:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

That, and we can set a fourth potential hovertext message, for values where it's "accurate" and above 100%. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 03:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that's necessary. If people don't understand that there's a high chance multiples will drop, they'll at least understand that it's an extrememly common drop. ~ Karuberu 13:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think the "(x#)" notes would be so confusing to people, otherwise I would have never added them. They show the maximum amount of an item that can drop, which is a valuable peice of information for people that farm those items. Though it should probably be changed to something less confusing ("(up to #)" will work for now), I don't think that this data should be removed. With values over 100%, {{Drop Rate}} can show that more than one item can drop, but it won't show what the maximum is. ~ Karuberu 13:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Changing the display works. (max 3) instead of (x3) would reduce any confusion from {{Drop Rate}}. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 14:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Something more needs done, people keep deleting useful data when they see multiple drops of the same item in 1 kill.--1.quos.vita.habitum.captivus 22:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps add each drop individually? Say, for example:

Perhaps there is a better way to execute this, maybe by placing a HTML comment instructing to increment this if at least 1, that one if at least 2, etc. next to each template. I think that since each item drops individually (you don't ALWAYS get the same # of multiple drops) that drop rates should be recorded individually. 100% should mean guaranteed drop. --Leuqarte 16:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Or, another proposal - make a new MultiDrop template that shows how many of an item drops, on average, per kill. For example:

[[Yagudo Feather]] (up to x4) {{MultiDrop|120|100}}

would show something similar to

--Leuqarte 20:31, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Two years later and this issue is still being disputed on monster pages. I went ahead and created {{MultiDrop}} (same name as Leuqarte's suggestion, but with a different functionality) to, hopefully, resolve the issue. Switching items over to {{MultiDrop}} will require discarding previous Drop Rate data, but it might be worth it if it stops the conflicts and misunderstandings. ~ Karuberu 13:11, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I tried to make one awhile ago, but it wouldn't work for me. But should we get rid of the original data altogether? Or should we supplement it with the Multidrop template? --User:Chrisjander/Sig 14:54, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm... it's possible, but I think it would confuse a lot of people - we would have to have two kill tallies, one for the first drop rate (probably using {{Drop Rate}}) and one for the multiples. Plus, any item that had people adding 2+ when multiples dropped would need to be discarded anyways, since MultiDrop uses multiple tallies (rather than one tally divided by the number of possible drops). I think it would be better to keep it simple and discard the old data, as sad as that is. ~ Karuberu 22:21, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

The template looks nice. However, it might need a little bit of a tweak to make it more visually intuitive. Currently it just displays each drop rate next to the one before it, without any sort of explanation. Maybe put a superscripted number next to each percentage to indicate if it's the single drop, double drop, etc.? Also, I think we should be careful when adding it to pages. Since it's a new template, and it works differently than the old one, we should make sure we add a comment line when we put it on new pages, so people adding their rates will make sure to do so correctly for that drop. Also, if we put the Multidrop template on a page, we should do the same for all drops (though keep the data for the ones that only drop singles). Though the template would need to be changed so that it can replace the Drop Rate template (i.e. accept only one entry). --User:Chrisjander/Sig 00:08, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about using it in place of the normal Drop Rate template (they won't line up anyways), but I added the superscript numbering like you suggested. I agree about commenting on how to use it when it's implemented, though I'm not sure if you'll be able to properly/clearly summarize how to use it in a short comment. Perhaps a wiki-wide message? We could also direct people to read the FFXI:Drop Rate Policy while we're at it, since there's still some occasional "evening out" going on (and this change will likely cause even more). ~ Karuberu 00:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Dropped from table[edit]

Should we be adding Drop Rate to the "Dropped from" table as well (listed in the item article)? If so, where should it go? Perhaps a new column? I also started recording drops at User:Zenoxio/DropRate and I'll be adding them to the articles soon enough. --Zeno 06:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Keep it on the monster pages for now. Having the same drop rate data on multiple pages would make keeping them updated much more complicated. ~ Karuberu 13:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't Treasure Hunter skew results?[edit]

I don't know about whether or not Treasure Hunter really kicks in with NMs and such, but for monsters like rams, wouldn't Treasure Hunter seriously skew results? Using rams as an example, Non-THFs I've spoken with have said they'll get maybe 1-3 items on average from a ram, whereas THFs have said they get 5 items on average. I don't know how to address that issue. --Ivrai 14:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Skewed results aren't necessarily a bad thing. The data will reflect what's most commonly used when killing the mob; Most people use Treasure Hunter when farming, so drop rates on things like Rams will probably have drop rates leaning more towards the Treasure Hunter values than the "base values". As long as the user realizes this, the Drop Rate shown will still be fairly reliable. ~ Karuberu 20:54, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I posted the below text on the forums for some comments but as it applies to this I figured I would put it here as well :) "Hi, I've been using ffxiclopedia for a long time now and am just starting to actually contribute myself. I came up with an idea about drop rates today and would like to run it by everyone here on the forums for some constructive criticism.

So basically the way we have it now all drop rates for each monster are combined regardless of no TH, TH1, 2, etc. Now in my mind this could really skew the drop rates over the long run and cause confusion for those trying to get an item and going 0/XX when others can get it 1/1. So as a possible solution for this I propose that the tables are altered on monster pages (and any other drop rates where TH affects it) so that we have sections in them titled something like "No Treasure Hunter", "Treasure Hunter 1", "Treasure Hunter 2", etc. This would allow people to get a more accurate drop rate and estimation of how long it will take depending on what TH they have.

I'm not sure if this has been proposed and issues found before or not because as I have said I'm relatively new to contributing. If anyone has any suggestions or comments they would be greatly appreciated. I know this would take a lot of work to implement however it could be done over a lengthy amount of time just as you casually visit each page. Thanks for taking the time to review my proposition and I hope we can get some great comments here about it." -- Aztin 16:24, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Applicable to HELMing and other activities?[edit]

Could we actually use this template to record HELMing and other hobby results as well? I think it'd be much better than relying on the current "Common" to "Very Rare" system for HELMing and chocobo digging. It should also work well for gardening. --Ivrai 16:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've actually been working on something specifically for H.E.L.M. It still uses the abundance terms (Common, Uncommon, etc.), but provides a percentage as well. I'll put an example in my template sandbox sometime later today. ~ Karuberu 16:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Done. I pulled the range for the abundance terms off the top of my head, so they're probably a little off (they can be easily changed). ~ Karuberu 21:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to make templates, but I'd be eager to use it once I know what it's called.  :o --Ivrai 00:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
If you need some numbers to work with to tweak the % ranges for the terms, I'll be putting up harvesting info from Bhaflau Thickets. Should be a decent source of data to get a general idea from. (Decimals are rounded up.)
  • 634 items harvested
  • 111 (17.5%) Fresh Marjoram
  • 94 (14.8%) Mohbwa Grass
  • 94 (14.8%) Pephredo Hive Chips
  • 71 (11.2%) Imperial Tea Leaves
  • 70 (11.0%) Coffee Cherries
  • 65 (10.3%) Simsim
  • 40 ( 6.3%) Red Moko Grass
  • 39 ( 6.2%) Eggplants
  • 24 ( 3.8%) Wijnruits
  • 26 ( 4.1%) Fresh Mugwort
All of this came from 3 stacks of sickles. I think it's starting to look solid. But I wouldn't fully count on it yet. --Ivrai 21:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I updated my mock template based on that data (I don't know what I was thinking with the old rarity numbers; they were way off) and moved it to {{Abundance}}. It may need some more fiddling to get the rarity ranges just right, but other than that, it's ready to be used (if noone objects to it). ~ Karuberu 21:24, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Used it on the Bhaflau Thickets Harvesting section. The entire page itself has some formatting issues, I think, but the harvesting section itself looks pretty good. I'll continue updating info as I harvest in the future, and I'll let you know if I think it needs some more tweaking. --Ivrai 21:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Hover mouse cursor here? browser issues?[edit]

I just noticed the "Hover mouse cursor here" thing. But I don't see anything when I comply. Would that be because I'm using Firefox? --Ivrai 23:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It works on Firefox, it's probably just being tricky. Hovertext doesn't always work for me, either. ~ Karuberu 01:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

On a related note, I really don't like the "Hover mouse cursor here" thing. The Drop Rate is just a supplement to the page, it shouldn't draw too much attention to itself. If "More data needed" doesn't get the point across, then perhaps we should have the drop rate appear as "???" until the acceptable level is reached (so noone gets the wrong idea). ~ Karuberu 01:09, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible to do the ??? thing and put "Approximately XX% drop rate - more data needed" in hovertext? --User:Charitwo/Sig 01:17, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

It was a temporary thing. If you can think of something better, possibly with a link to the template page properly (which explains how to use the template properly), then by all means fix it. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 01:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Changed it. I like the idea of linking to the template, but I couldn't find a way to do the link without it looking odd. ~ Karuberu 02:40, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Made "More Data Needed" into a link to Template:Drop Rate, so people can see how to edit them. That being done, I may want to protect this page, so people don't try to edit this template instead of the monster page. Thoughts? --User:Chrisjander/Sig 06:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably a good idea, seeing as how many pages this is on now and that number will only continue to grow. --User:Charitwo/Sig 14:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'm going to protect this template. If you need to make any changes Karuberu, just throw your alterations in a sandbox, put a message here, and one of us can copy and paste it in. I have this template on watch, so I should see it. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 14:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The link looks good there, but it's kind of out of place ("More data needed" linking to help). Perhaps something like "{{ht|{{{1}}}/{{{2}}} ({{#expr:{{{1}}} / {{{2}}} * 100 round 1}}%). Insufficient data for accurate Drop Rate. More information is needed.|(???%)<sup>More data needed [[Template:Drop Rate|[?]]]</sup>|gray}}" instead? ~ Karuberu 20:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

How do you mean "out of place"? --User:Chrisjander/Sig 19:43, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well it says "More data needed," but it links to help on using the template. If someone clicked the link they would probably be expecting an answer to what the "More data needed" meant, but instead be instructed on the use of the template. It's true that they would probably find thier answer there, but the hovertext has a much clearer answer, so it'd be nice to have the hovertext on the "More data needed" and have the help link elsewhere. ~ Karuberu 20:49, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

100% drop items[edit]

Is it possible to add a variable for items that drop regardless, this edit made me think of this and that a syntax for 100% dropped items would be appropriate. --User:Charitwo/Sig 17:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Could always just do (100%) ({{Drop Rate|99999|99999}}), but I someone fluent in this template could add a {{Drop Rate|100%}} vaiable where the hover text is more descriptive/accurate. --User:Gahoo/Sig 17:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
I was going to give it a high number, but those unfamiliar with the template might be confused by it. Which is why I'm leaning to the latter half, except % might not work in the syntax. --User:Charitwo/Sig 17:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Use the code from my template sandbox; Displays "(100%)" with {{Drop Rate|100%}} (I didn't do anything fancy, since it's only a formatting thing). ~ Karuberu 20:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I just tried and broke it. :/ --User:Gahoo/Sig 20:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Copy & paste the whole page and it should work. The change you made didn't work because the #ifeq wasn't closed, so I'm guessing you just copied the first part. ~ Karuberu 21:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


Got it. Thanks. --User:Gahoo/Sig 21:57, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

FFXI NM drop rate parse project[edit]

If nobody objects, I'm going to ask the admin of the project if he minds me using their data to help fill out drop rates on wiki NM pages. I don't think anyone will mind since scope is totally different.

The project is collecting data for the purpose of determining once and for all if elemental day level moonphase etc. effect drops rates in anyway, and we just want and average drop rate over all here right? Its mostly non NM drops, but that would give us sample sizes of several thousand on things like beehive chips and sheep skins. --1.quos.vita.habitum.captivus 23:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

You can use the template to track whatever you want, just keep it in a sandbox (subpage to your userpage, used for research, edit testing, and article drafting). The template doesn't store any data, so using it in that manner won't disrupt anything on the pages that currently use this. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 23:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Not what I mean. I'm saying theres a group on another site that has a huge pile of drop rate data. I could just get that data go to the relevant monster page and add in the numbers like they were my drops. Sorry I guess I should have linked not that many people know about it. --1.quos.vita.habitum.captivus 00:18, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

If you get thier permission to use thier data, feel free to add it to the pages. Just make sure you give them credit in the editing comment/summary. ~ Karuberu 00:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Not only does that give them credit, it also prevents others from adding the same data again (or if they do, we can correct it). --User:Chrisjander/Sig 01:02, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

So your aware I haven't yet added their data yet, just my own drops on NM's I've camped lately. This is because I have to do math for theirs; they separate by each moonphase. When I can tear myself away from work and FFXI long enough I'll get started. --1.quos.vita.habitum.captivus 20:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Multiple Drop Possibilities[edit]

I've noticed a lot of people are just editing a single item on the drop rate templates per mob, creating distorted stats. What if the template was modified to compound all droppable items, something like:

{{Drop_Rate|300|[[item1]]|20|[[item2]]|10|[[item3]] (x2)|200}}

Which would display as:
Item1 6.6%
Item2 3.3%
Item3 (x2) 66.6%

I'm by no means an expert at wiki script, so I don't even know if it is possible.

A lower tech solution could be to add a comment before each use of the template:

< !-- Please ensure that you modify the kill count for all items, even if there was no drop.-- >

Another way of looking at it, is that the results are skewed anyway, as people may not bother to record instances of 0 drops, TH/TH2 is not accounted for...

What do others think? TheMysteriousX 21:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Multiple drops are kind of up in the air as far as how people are editing them. They're the only real problem we're running into. As to the skew from TH, etc, I believe it is adequately explained in the above discussions that given a large enough sample size, the impact is minimal, and will only vary a few percents (and thereby you should look at the results with a grain of salt). As for changing the Drop Rate template, your proposed change, while potential possible, codewise, would be unimplementable due to the current use of the template, as well as the complexity. We're trying to keep it as simple as possible so as many people can contribute their drop rate informations as possible, without getting too confused when it comes to editing the wiki. I've found, from most of my observations of people contributing data, that most people will report all the kills and all the drops, and will not omit when it does not drop. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 22:44, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like adding a <! -- comment may be the best thing. Is there a bot that could do this? I'm guessing it would be tricky to get a bot to do it as the template can be used in so many different ways. TheMysteriousX 21:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's neccessary; While having data for all drops is preferred, adding drop rate info for only one item doesn't neccessarily skew the results, it simply makes that item's percentage more accurate than the other items. A problem would only occur if people started logging in zeros for the other drops when they couldn't remember what they got. ~ Karuberu 01:38, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Which is exactly what is happening right now. We have some people insisting all a mobs drops be updated each and every edit and reverting useful info. --1.quos.vita.habitum.captivus 22:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Agree 100% with Karuberu. --User:Gahoo/Sig 02:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, of course, you're right. It wouldn't cause any skew at all, it'd just cause different accuracies. That'll teach me to try and do maths late at night. TheMysteriousX 04:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


Not updating an item in some cases would cause that item to skew higher, I would consider that bad or misleading data:
  • Call Item 1 the major item (highly desirable drop or whatever). Item 2 is another drop from the same mob, but is fairly common. If a player kills the mob and gets 1/3 on Item 1 and 0/3 on item 2, that player MAY decide only to update Item 1's template. When another player kills the mob and gets, say, 3/7 and 4/7 on the two drops, respectively, he will update both items. As a result:
    • Item 1: 4/10 (40%) - accurate
    • Item 2: 4/7 (57.1%) - inaccurate. The drop rate is actually 40%.
This would not happen if the player was ignoring this item, whether it dropped or not. In this case, the drop rate percentage would remain accurate, but still not quite as good as having a larger sampling of data. However, I cannot assume the player is doing this, so I have reverted changes that do not update all items, in most cases. --Leuqarte 16:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. I don't think that this information should be reverted if the counts are different. The drop rate on the second item is still valid, it just isn't as accurate yet. The second person did witness a 57.1% drop rate on the item regardless of what the first person had. With more information the rate will become more accurate, but we shouldn't throw out accuracy on the first item to keep the levels of accuracy equal Mike23 05:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggested Revisions[edit]

Is there a way to have other pages link back to the main monster page (ie from the zone pages or have the 'dropped from' show the rate via a link and it you update the mob page it updates all of them? Some one also screwed up the Sapphire Quadav page. --Brimstone 19:48, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


Few comments/suggestions. These stem mainly because on many pages this is being added without additional information and I expect many of these entries to stay with fewer than 100 data entries for long periods of time.

  1. Delete the {{Information Needed}} template. Already done. It took up too much space and isn't needed. A question mark relays the same infomation.
  2. I propose changing "???" to "?". Again, what do three convey that one doesn't? Also "???" in game has meaning.
  3. Reduce the 100 level to 50. 50 is still fairly reliable, and it is in gray anyway.
  4. Remove the "More data needed" link. Again, takes up too much space. If we say <50 (or 100) is not reliable then it is not reliable and not materially different from 0/0.
  5. Possible to make the result of the template link to [[Template:Drop Rate]]? If not I would consider a very small icon which could link back to the template page. But again, since this is basically on every line of some sections (see Sauromugue Champaign for example), it would need to be small - like a "".

--User:Gahoo/Sig 13:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, a lot of things... let's go one-by-one:

  1. That's fine. I was never really too attached to it, and it did take up space. The 0/0 should probably be combined with the "< acceptable" now, though.
  2. I'd like to keep the three question marks. Single question marks usually represent help links or indicate questions, while multiple marks represent missing information. It's only two extra characters, and it makes the purpose clearer.
  3. No problem there. The values were picked arbitrarily in the first place, so changing them after a while is only natural.
  4. There needs to be something to show that the question marks are for {{Drop Rate}}, and not something else. It's in the hovertext, but hovertext doesn't always work for everyone. A small icon would be a good alternative, if there's one that will work.
  5. It's possible to link from the drop rate, but I don't think it's a good idea. I like the icon idea; perhaps something like "(24.6%)?"?

As for the template being used on zone pages: this is not good. It's easy for the data to get confused if it's not controlled well enough.

If the information is going to be displayed on several pages, then only one should use the template. The rest should either transclude the info from the monster page (with an extension, for example) or simply be copied every once in a while (perhaps use a seperate template so the formatting is the same and so the copy date can be displayed in hovertext). ~ Karuberu 03:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I put up an example in my template sandbox (and some example uses in its talk page). This version has the above revisions, but has the results linking to the template and no icon after the ??? results, just because it looks better that way (I made some other asthetic revisions as well). ~ Karuberu 22:03, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Sandbox looks real good to me. As for usage, I agree it should probably be on the mob and item page only and not on the zone page. We don't have access to section transclusion now, so we'll deal. --User:Gahoo/Sig 04:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

The '???' should be changed to 'N/A'. And the minimum number of entries should be reduced to 5 or 10. Honestly I have no idea what "???" referred to until I started messing around with the numbers until it no longer was a '???'. And the drop rate should be rounded UP to the nearest percent. Not tenth of a percent.--Laraul 17:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

STRONGLY disagree with Laraul here. Results with a sampling of only 5 or 10 pretty much have no meaning whatsoever. Mouse over the ??? to see what the numbers are if you really want to see what's there. And what's wrong with a little bit more precision? --Leuq 17:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Gil Drops[edit]

May I suggest that we add "gil" to the list of dropped items on various monsters? Many Beastmen and NMs drop gil, and I think it is an important "drop" to record and track. We could use Template: Average Price to track this sort of thing, exactly as is done in the case of Coffers/Chests.

--Pakushaku 19:11, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but should if we did do that should there be a warning about Gilfinder and people soloing NMs with it? --Themanii 02:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea of adding gil to the drops sections, but I don't think a template is necessary. Most monsters have a small range for thier gil drops, so calculating the average isn't really necessary to get a good idea of the amount of gil you'll get. ~ Karuberu 03:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Default total kill value[edit]

When there are up to 50 possible items that can drop (BCNMs, Chocobo H&C), edits have to be made to every single item. Even when there are only 3 changed values.
What I want to suggest, is the following:

  • Whenever the value is actually filled, that value is stored in a variable.
  • Whenever the value is NOT filled, the stored variable will be used instead.
  • 100% value will be ignored.
  • The variable is initialised at 0. (The existing script to deal with 0/0 will take care of the rest.)

I think this could be done very easily, and it would not require changing existing pages using the template. The only thing that must be kept in mind, is to include the total kills value at the first non-100% item drop. --Seedling 22:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

change for new parser[edit]

#ifeq:{{{2|1}}}|0|1|{{{2}}}}} needs to change to #ifeq:{{{2|1}}}|0|1|{{{2|1}}}}} for Special:ParserDiffTest/Template talk:Drop Rate to work. --◄mendel► 14:23, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

fixed. thanks. --User:Gahoo/Sig 16:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Template a failure?[edit]

It's been a over a year now since this template was introduced. And still, I find the total kills is still typically in the single digits. I don't know if I've ever spotted one that's has had 500+ submissions. There are probably some out there, but I didn't notice them. I mean just to see one with 50+ contributions is a surprise. Probably more drop rates that still say (0/0) than those that don't read (???%). I got online even and asked what they thought (???%) meant? those that responded said that the wiki did not know (one said Incredibly Tough, don't think he understood what I was talking about). They said they all used the Wiki. But no one knew about the template and that people we're supposed to submit they're number of successes and total attempts. It's just to vague. How are people supposed to know? And even if they know, what are the chances they remember to submit their results? This is just being way to scientific about it. We've given it a year. Time to try a simpler approach. Honestly a good guess is better than the results we have gotten, IMO. Anyone else agree? --laraul 14:59, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Different items drop from same mob for different adventurers[edit]

OK, I got a question: How would you do drop rate for a mob like Aroma Leech which drops only certain items depending on the Adventurer's Race? Obviously, being a Male Hume, I couldn't pop the NM nor get a drop for anything other than the Balm Sachet (only asking because I'm currently trying to get it). Would I update only to that item since it is the only item at this time or go cross-the-board even though I cannot get those items from it? --Washuotaku 02:00, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

You are correct, since the other items cannot drop for you, you would update only the drop rate for your race's item. --User:Chrisjander/Sig 03:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

This article uses material from the "Template_talk:Drop_Rate" article on FFXIclopedia and is licensed under the CC-BY-SA License.