Difference between revisions of "Talk:Latent and Hidden Effects"

 
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Removed old comments. Find them in the [[/Archive]]. --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 16:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
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{{Archive Box|[[/Archive]]<br>[[/Archive1]]}}
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==General==
 
 
I just found this page and think it needs a lot of work, as per the comments above. I'm going to move the contents of the [[Latent Effect]] and [[Hidden Effect]] pages be moved here, and put redirects in their place. I'm also going to remove a lot of the extraneous items from the list--equipment that has effects activated by different days/weather/etc that have full ingame descriptions do not need to be listed here. We can also work on breaking this into separate sections--subjob, HP%, weapon skill points, damage type, etc. --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 17:09, 14 July 2006 (EDT)
 
 
 
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I did a lot of work on this page tonight trying to categorize the various items and add many items that were missing. I'm not 100% happy with the section titles or their ordering, so any suggestions would be welcome. I'm going to sleep before my edits start getting messy, but I'll continue when I next have some free time. Oh, and the spacing in the JSE sections seemed like a good idea at the time but it looks ugly to me now... If you happen to be bored, try removing the empty rows and alternating between light and dark blue backgrounds. --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 07:03, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 
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If this started as a copy/paste from another source, please link to it in a References section at the bottom. --[[User:Valyana|Valyana]] 17:19, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 
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Hmm, well it seems like the person who originally started the page copied it from a thread on Alla from 2004. How all of the items listed there work is pretty much general knowledge at this point in time. The person on Alla copied his information from early existing sources like Mysterytour when putting it together. I've also completely overhauled the categorization and added many new/missing items (not from a specific source, from my own experience and that of my friends). So, is it still necessary to cite the source? If so, should I cite Mysterytour, or the Alla thread? --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 17:33, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 
 
 
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i'm not one to jump to deletion, but should some of the comments here be deleted since they are now obsolete (all the sorting stuff)
 
 
 
 
 
just notes, incase you missed them:
 
might want to make a "time actived" section<br>
 
put the Brisingamen, the Treat Staff, the clown subligars<br>
 
(if the fenrir stuff was still here, it would go here)
 
 
 
opopopo crown needs to go into food effects<br>
 
 
 
 
 
Mistilteinn into "combat related"<br>
 
(the "rune" series of weapons from the ancient machines would probly go here too, they drain 2/3/4MP per tick in battle)
 
 
 
Company Sword, into "party related"
 
 
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 18:14, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 
 
 
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Hehe, thanks for the positive comments on my user talk page. Most of the items you mentioned already have little commented out lines in the appropriate sections where they belong, but I've been doing this section by section and haven't gotten to the last few yet. ^^ Also, thanks for the Time-related section suggestion. I was considering making one but thought we might not have enough items to warrant taking them out of the "Other Effects" catch-all category. Anyway, I have to run Dynamis at the moment so I'll get back to this later tonight, and possibly clean up this talk page as well. --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 18:32, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 
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You only need to site sources for original information.  Alla posters didn't come up with the latent triggers, SE did, so you don't need to site you source.  A guide from alla you'd site, because someone created that themselves, but gathered facts don't fall under the "site this information" umbrella. --[[User:Chrisjander|Chrisjander]] 21:13, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 
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I finally finished editing to the bottom of the page, but the article's not quite complete or 100% polished yet.
 
I finally finished editing to the bottom of the page, but the article's not quite complete or 100% polished yet.
  
 
# The introduction isn't all that great. Maybe someone more eloquent could spruce it up a little.
 
# The introduction isn't all that great. Maybe someone more eloquent could spruce it up a little.
# The TOC is a little unwieldy. Maybe someone could replace it with something like what's on the [[:Category:Relic Weapons]] or [[Auto-Translator]] pages.
 
 
# The Rasetsu Armor set needs testing.
 
# The Rasetsu Armor set needs testing.
# The elemental staves also work on debuffs (e.g., [[Ice Staff]] for [[Paralyze]]) but I'm not sure whether "potency" conveys that. Should their hidden effects include a "___ element magic accuracy +10/15%"?
 
# Test MP drain of various rune weapons
 
# The food effect coloring is sort of nice, and gives those two lines external consistency, but on this particular page I think the extra colors make it a little too busy, especially while trying to convey which effects are changed from the normal food effects. The red text within links also conflicts with the normal wiki coloring of broken internal links.
 
 
# The undocumented latents at the bottom need testing, of course.
 
# The undocumented latents at the bottom need testing, of course.
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<s># The TOC is a little unwieldy. Maybe someone could replace it with something like what's on the [[:Category:Relic Weapons]] or [[Auto-Translator]] pages.</s><br>
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<s># The elemental staves also work on debuffs (e.g., [[Ice Staff]] for [[Paralyze]]) but I'm not sure whether "potency" conveys that. Should their hidden effects include a "___ element magic accuracy +10/15%"?</s>
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<s># Test MP drain of various rune weapons</s><br>
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<s># The food effect coloring is sort of nice, and gives those two lines external consistency, but on this particular page I think the extra colors make it a little too busy, especially while trying to convey which effects are changed from the normal food effects. The red text within links also conflicts with the normal wiki coloring of broken internal links.</s>
  
 
--[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 16:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
 
--[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 16:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
  
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== Possible Additions? ==
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[[Ace's Locket]]?
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Possibly needs to be used with [[Ace's Helm]]? --[[User:Jinxs|Jinxs]] 16:39, 2 November 2006 (EST)
 
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got another for ya,<br>
 
got another for ya,<br>
 
<br>
 
<br>
 
Princely Sword<br>
 
Princely Sword<br>
http://ffxi.somepage.com/itemdb/5316<br>
 
 
<br>
 
<br>
 
so i'm told the +/-'s invert if the wielder is rank10 sandy.<br>
 
so i'm told the +/-'s invert if the wielder is rank10 sandy.<br>
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it sells for quite a bit, so i'm willing to bet to does SOMETHING<br>
 
it sells for quite a bit, so i'm willing to bet to does SOMETHING<br>
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 03:20, 19 July 2006 (EDT)
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 03:20, 19 July 2006 (EDT)
 
 
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also, one more thing, on the subject of the ele staffs, i (personally) think its not needed to list the -element effects.<br>
 
<br>
 
the statement of "These effects conform to standard elemental strengths and weaknesses." is enough really<br>
 
also, it does say "X element magic potency", so that would include the enfeebles too,<Br>
 
paralyze is as much an ice spell as blizzard<br>
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 03:25, 19 July 2006 (EDT)
 
  
 
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--[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 02:45, 26 July 2006 (EDT)
 
--[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 02:45, 26 July 2006 (EDT)
  
== Requested Move ==
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I'm requesting that this page be moved from '''Latent Effect/Hidden Effect Guide''' to '''Latent and Hidden Effects''' because subpages are now turned on for the main namespace on the wiki. The software currently displays a little "< Latent Effect" navigation aid at the start of the page because it thinks this is the "Hidden Effect Guide" subpage of the "Latent Effect" page.
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:[[Company Fleuret]]?  Maybe similar to [[Company Sword]]?
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--[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 14:20, 25 September 2006 (EDT)
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The [[Minstrel's Ring]] latent is activated below 76% HP, not 75% HP, so you can have it active without being in yellow. I suspect that all the other rings work the same way, but haven't tested. --[[User:Valyana|Valyana]] 10:52, 9 March 2007 (EST)
  
I checked the "What links here" page, and nothing links to this guide directly--only through "Latent Effect" and "Hidden Effect" redirects. If we go ahead with this, please make sure the talk [[/Archive]] is moved as well. Thanks! --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 21:17, 29 August 2006 (EDT)
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== HP/TP triggers ==
  
Done. --[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 15:58, 30 August 2006 (EDT)
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All the triggers listed as &le;xx% seem unlikely to me, as they suggest that, say, if something is triggered at &le;50% and I have 1000 HP, then a latent will be active at 499 and 500 HP but not 501. I think it more likely that the latent is active at 499 but not 500, which would be <50%.  If it's active at 509 but not 510, then I think it's clearer to write <51%.
  
Thanks! :) --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 12:43, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
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Similarly, I believe that the triggers listed as &le;100% TP are actually <100% TP.
  
== Featured Article ==
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So far I've only corrected this for the L50 rings which I've personally tested. --[[User:Valyana|Valyana]] 00:12, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
  
Considering how much I use this, I'd say this is worthy of being a featured article. --[[User:Enfield|Enfield]] 10:21, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
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== Perdu wand ==
  
== Additional Items? ==
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Although I am not sure how to measure the accuracy on this item being a WHM and everything I use it on has low evasion to begin with I have realized that my attack does go up by 15 (five higher then my Darksteel maul) when I have less then 100% (obviously)but there is also the reduction by 15 when my TP hits 100%+
  
:[[Company Fleuret]]? Maybe similar to [[Company Sword]]?
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== Undocumented Latent Effects Triggers section needs to be updated ==
:[[Mensur Epee]]
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I can't edit it right now but if anyone else can, can anyone do some editing? More than half of the items in the "Undocumented" section have been figured out, if anyone can move that to the right sections, that'd be great. [[User:Petco|Petco]] 07:06, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
--[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 14:20, 25 September 2006 (EDT)
 

Latest revision as of 01:09, 21 July 2008


/Archive
/Archive1

General[edit]

I finally finished editing to the bottom of the page, but the article's not quite complete or 100% polished yet.

  1. The introduction isn't all that great. Maybe someone more eloquent could spruce it up a little.
  2. The Rasetsu Armor set needs testing.
  3. The undocumented latents at the bottom need testing, of course.

# The TOC is a little unwieldy. Maybe someone could replace it with something like what's on the Category:Relic Weapons or Auto-Translator pages.
# The elemental staves also work on debuffs (e.g., Ice Staff for Paralyze) but I'm not sure whether "potency" conveys that. Should their hidden effects include a "___ element magic accuracy +10/15%"? # Test MP drain of various rune weapons
# The food effect coloring is sort of nice, and gives those two lines external consistency, but on this particular page I think the extra colors make it a little too busy, especially while trying to convey which effects are changed from the normal food effects. The red text within links also conflicts with the normal wiki coloring of broken internal links.

--Ichthyos 16:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Possible Additions?[edit]

Ace's Locket? Possibly needs to be used with Ace's Helm? --Jinxs 16:39, 2 November 2006 (EST)


got another for ya,

Princely Sword

so i'm told the +/-'s invert if the wielder is rank10 sandy.

   * Strength +4
   * Vitality -6
   * Charisma -6
   * Enmity -6

to

   * Strength -4
   * Vitality +6
   * Charisma +6
   * Enmity +6


just passing the info along.
it sells for quite a bit, so i'm willing to bet to does SOMETHING
--uberfuzzy 03:20, 19 July 2006 (EDT)


Hmm, I think the Princely Sword hidden stat swap effect is just a rumor. I haven't seen hidden effects on any other KS99 weapons, and haven't come across any documented proof of the effect. If you find some, please post it! ^^ --Ichthyos 06:42, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

dont have any 1st hand proof, it came up in conversation while doing the ks99 run in h.peak.
someone also said it might have to be elvaan also, again, not sure.
i'd rather post it, and have it debunked then have people wonder.
(although it does make you wonder why it sells for so much, for just +4 str with such hefty penalties)
--uberfuzzy 14:56, 24 July 2006 (EDT)


I believe the Princely Sword's high price is due to the following factors:

It's a KS99 drop, so supply remains relatively low.
It's the highest damage sword (with a STR bonus to boot) for PLDs who are collecting DD gear.

--Ichthyos 02:45, 26 July 2006 (EDT)


Company Fleuret? Maybe similar to Company Sword?

--Gahoo 14:20, 25 September 2006 (EDT)


The Minstrel's Ring latent is activated below 76% HP, not 75% HP, so you can have it active without being in yellow. I suspect that all the other rings work the same way, but haven't tested. --Valyana 10:52, 9 March 2007 (EST)

HP/TP triggers[edit]

All the triggers listed as ≤xx% seem unlikely to me, as they suggest that, say, if something is triggered at ≤50% and I have 1000 HP, then a latent will be active at 499 and 500 HP but not 501. I think it more likely that the latent is active at 499 but not 500, which would be <50%. If it's active at 509 but not 510, then I think it's clearer to write <51%.

Similarly, I believe that the triggers listed as ≤100% TP are actually <100% TP.

So far I've only corrected this for the L50 rings which I've personally tested. --Valyana 00:12, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Perdu wand[edit]

Although I am not sure how to measure the accuracy on this item being a WHM and everything I use it on has low evasion to begin with I have realized that my attack does go up by 15 (five higher then my Darksteel maul) when I have less then 100% (obviously)but there is also the reduction by 15 when my TP hits 100%+

Undocumented Latent Effects Triggers section needs to be updated[edit]

I can't edit it right now but if anyone else can, can anyone do some editing? More than half of the items in the "Undocumented" section have been figured out, if anyone can move that to the right sections, that'd be great. Petco 07:06, 28 July 2007 (CDT)