Difference between revisions of "Talk:Latent and Hidden Effects"

*>Valyana
 
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Is it okay to just drag and drop this in then format for the wiki? Or is there some issues regarding people not wanting the data copied? --[[User:Syeria|Syeria]] 15:32, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
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{{Archive Box|[[/Archive]]<br>[[/Archive1]]}}
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==General==
Personally i prefer not copy/pasting just because...it feels plagaristic to me even if it's not really. and also data like these would look so much better tabled out and organzied better. unless thats what you meant to do from the get-go and i misunderstood the question... ^_^ but that's my 2 cents! er, gil. --[[User:Rixie|Rixie]] 16:27, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
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I finally finished editing to the bottom of the page, but the article's not quite complete or 100% polished yet.
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I was meaning to format it to look a lot nicer and more readable, I was just curious toward the exact policy the wiki is taking with copying. The information in question is posted on a public forum, and is therefore public domain. Even posted elsewhere, as far as I know, the writer makes no attempt to copyright it, etc. Anyway, I just wondered whether there was a specific reason not to take the data from here. --[[User:Syeria|Syeria]] 16:32, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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No reason.  It should be reformatted of course.  --[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 17:08, 11 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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Ah, I see. In that case, I say take the info. It's more of a compilation anyways. ^_^ And a very good addition to the Wiki I think. --[[User:Rixie|Rixie]] 10:39, 12 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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I started it but got pulled away.  Feel free to continue the wikification.  --[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 11:39, 12 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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I've been doing some of the formatting on this, but I'm wondering whether we should be putting breaks in for the latent effects on the elemental staves. Right now, some of them don't look very good in my 1024x768 resolution. Specifically, wind staff looks a bit funny. --[[User:Syeria|Syeria]] 13:37, 12 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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How are we going to handle the _of Trials part? Leave the name as is? Put in individual entries for each trials weapon? --[[User:Syeria|Syeria]] 14:07, 19 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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Okay, the page is pretty much done, the only things left now are: should we expand upon "Level 50 Job Specific Rings" and put the individual rings, basically the same concern about the Trial weapons, and what sort of order should these be in? Now that the main table is in, maybe we want to seperate the items into categories (i.e. Swords, Back Armor, etc.) and sort them by level? Or we could leave just one big table like it is now and alphabatize it. --[[User:Syeria|Syeria]] 00:41, 20 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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Order them in the standard item list (i.e. [[WAR]]/[[MNK]]/[[WHM]]/[[BLM]]/[[RDM]]/[[THF]]/[[PLD]]/[[DRK]]/[[BST]]/[[BRD]]/[[RNG]]
 
/[[SAM]]/[[NIN]]/[[DRG]]/[[SMN]]/[[BLU]]/[[COR]]/[[PUP]]).  My opinion is to sort by level, or by slot and level. --[[User:Chrisjander|Chrisjander]] 01:23, 20 May 2006 (PDT)
 
  
== stuff ==
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# The introduction isn't all that great. Maybe someone more eloquent could spruce it up a little.
 +
# The Rasetsu Armor set needs testing.
 +
# The undocumented latents at the bottom need testing, of course.
 +
<s># The TOC is a little unwieldy. Maybe someone could replace it with something like what's on the [[:Category:Relic Weapons]] or [[Auto-Translator]] pages.</s><br>
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<s># The elemental staves also work on debuffs (e.g., [[Ice Staff]] for [[Paralyze]]) but I'm not sure whether "potency" conveys that. Should their hidden effects include a "___ element magic accuracy +10/15%"?</s>
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<s># Test MP drain of various rune weapons</s><br>
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<s># The food effect coloring is sort of nice, and gives those two lines external consistency, but on this particular page I think the extra colors make it a little too busy, especially while trying to convey which effects are changed from the normal food effects. The red text within links also conflicts with the normal wiki coloring of broken internal links.</s>
  
i'd like to chime in on somethings.
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--[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 16:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT)
  
in general, i think the bulk of the list should be alphabetized, but certain "groups" should be broken out into their own table.
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== Possible Additions? ==
namely the L30 shields, L50 rings (the sheilds and earrings got expanded, might as well expand and list each ring), L70 earring and so on, msotly the Lx items from the bcnms.
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[[Ace's Locket]]?
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Possibly needs to be used with [[Ace's Helm]]? --[[User:Jinxs|Jinxs]] 16:39, 2 November 2006 (EST)
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got another for ya,<br>
 +
<br>
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Princely Sword<br>
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<br>
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so i'm told the +/-'s invert if the wielder is rank10 sandy.<br>
 +
    * Strength +4
 +
    * Vitality -6
 +
    * Charisma -6
 +
    * Enmity -6
 +
to
 +
    * Strength -4
 +
    * Vitality +6
 +
    * Charisma +6
 +
    * Enmity +6
 +
<br>
 +
just passing the info along.<br>
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it sells for quite a bit, so i'm willing to bet to does SOMETHING<br>
 +
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 03:20, 19 July 2006 (EDT)
  
only issue i have with alpha'ing it, it mixxing certain groups of things up, (ie, the "can eat fish" items or the "+kick" items) with no good way to link those things together.
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Hmm, I think the [[Princely Sword]] hidden stat swap effect is just a rumor. I haven't seen hidden effects on any other KS99 weapons, and haven't come across any documented proof of the effect. If you find some, please post it! ^^ --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 06:42, 24 July 2006 (EDT)
  
the "_ of trials" doesnt need to be expanded, but should not be in the main list. <br>
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dont have any 1st hand proof, it came up in conversation while doing the ks99 run in h.peak.<br>
someone should also write up a short HowTo/FAQ/article in general on the whole "trial weapons" concept and link it to that entry. the latents arent worth listing here.
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someone also said it might have to be elvaan also, again, not sure.<br>
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i'd rather post it, and have it debunked then have people wonder.<Br>
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(although it does make you wonder why it sells for so much, for just +4 str with such hefty penalties)<br>
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--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 14:56, 24 July 2006 (EDT)
  
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I believe the [[Princely Sword]]'s high price is due to the following factors:
 +
:It's a KS99 drop, so supply remains relatively low.
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:It's the highest damage sword (with a STR bonus to boot) for PLDs who are collecting DD gear.
 +
--[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 02:45, 26 July 2006 (EDT)
  
and for the subjob triggers, might want to shorten it to like "Subjob: [name]"
 
 
 
we might want to define somewhere, either in this article or in a linked one, what "daytime" and "nighttime" actually mean.
 
 
 
has all this data been propgated to the individual items pages yet?<br>
 
or does it need to?
 
 
not really a full issue, just something i noticed<br>
 
carbie mitts, list says "-4", page says "-50%"<br>
 
and theres an entry for horror head, but not HH2.<br>
 
 
i'm really looking forward to a nice clean well verified list like this, i've seen so many across forums and site, but many so old/outdated/wrong.<Br>
 
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 13:57, 22 May 2006 (PDT)
 
 
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#Agree on splitting it into sections.  I think the sections should be both ring, back, shield, etc. (i.e. where obvious and based on slot), but also Eat fish, Kick, etc. (i.e. were latent effect is the same or complementary).  Then the rest go into a misc. alpha list.
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:[[Company Fleuret]]?  Maybe similar to [[Company Sword]]?
#[[Day]] and [[Night]] have entries.  Can just be linked.
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--[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 14:20, 25 September 2006 (EDT)
#Subjob: [name] looks nice.
 
--[[User:Gahoo|Gahoo]] 14:27, 22 May 2006 (PDT)
 
 
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did the day and night links<br>
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The [[Minstrel's Ring]] latent is activated below 76% HP, not 75% HP, so you can have it active without being in yellow.  I suspect that all the other rings work the same way, but haven't tested. --[[User:Valyana|Valyana]] 10:52, 9 March 2007 (EST)
did the subjob links<br>
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i'll leave the mass moving and sorting to someone with better/more wiki skills<br>
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== HP/TP triggers ==
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 18:39, 22 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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quick idea, we might want to seperate the latent (ie triggered) from the hidden (ie, ele staffs)<br>
 
things with triggers are not the same as things like the kick boots/fish weapons/ele staffs<br>
 
just an idea, probly can deal with that once table gets sorted/seperated.<br>
 
<br>
 
more of a note: since the cactrot bow was added, but the effect/trigger is listed on the item, should we add the fenrir items too?<br>
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 21:12, 22 May 2006 (PDT)
 
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I'd just like to mention that this data was all just directly copied from a post on Alla. The Carby Mitts question and other such things are just anomalies due to the copy-paste. We might want to have some people try confirm any of these that seem questionable.
 
  
In regard to the Trial weapons, I think they should stay here because people who know nothing about Trial weapons may see that the item clearly states it has a latent and come here looking. In regard to the Cactrot Bow, I'd say things that have instructions for their latent on the in game item should probably be removed from the list. For example, the Vampire items aren't on here, nor do I think they should be.
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All the triggers listed as &le;xx% seem unlikely to me, as they suggest that, say, if something is triggered at &le;50% and I have 1000 HP, then a latent will be active at 499 and 500 HP but not 501. I think it more likely that the latent is active at 499 but not 500, which would be <50%. If it's active at 509 but not 510, then I think it's clearer to write <51%.
  
Are there pages we can link the individual days to? They look a little funny when Night and Day get links.  --[[User:Syeria|Syeria]] 04:08, 23 May 2006 (PDT)
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Similarly, I believe that the triggers listed as &le;100% TP are actually <100% TP.
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i know it was copied, i remember seeing that post when it was written (back in 2004)<br>
 
i was just bringing things to light so they could be looked into/verified<br>
 
<br>
 
yes, the trial weapons do need to stay here, but i dont think they need to each be listed.<br>
 
some of the trial weapons do have full quest writeups, but not all of the<br>
 
i was just suggesting a general "quested WS/ _ of trials" guide that could be linked to/neer the "_ of trials" entry.<br>
 
would it be worth it for a catagory for the "of trials" weapons so they could be linked together?<br>
 
<br>
 
on the "obvious" trigger items (acro bow and fenrir *), i dont think they should be listed here unless they have other "hidden" effects<br>
 
again, i'll leave that to who ever is going to re layout the page<Br>
 
<br>
 
on "days" we can probly use [[Days of the Week]] for the days.<br>
 
it seems good enough<br>
 
<br>
 
instead of a "N/A", could we put "contant" or "always active"?<br>
 
<Br>
 
more notes:<br>
 
Bartholomew's knife: why is it here?<br>
 
--[[User:UberFuzzy|uberfuzzy]] 06:32, 23 May 2006 (PDT)
 
  
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So far I've only corrected this for the L50 rings which I've personally tested. --[[User:Valyana|Valyana]] 00:12, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
  
I just found this page and think it needs a lot of work, as per the comments above. I'm going to move the contents of the [[Latent Effect]] and [[Hidden Effect]] pages be moved here, and put redirects in their place. I'm also going to remove a lot of the extraneous items from the list--equipment that has effects activated by different days/weather/etc that have full ingame descriptions do not need to be listed here. We can also work on breaking this into separate sections--subjob, HP%, weapon skill points, damage type, etc. --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 17:09, 14 July 2006 (EDT)
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== Perdu wand ==
  
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Although I am not sure how to measure the accuracy on this item being a WHM and everything I use it on has low evasion to begin with I have realized that my attack does go up by 15 (five higher then my Darksteel maul) when I have less then 100% (obviously)but there is also the reduction by 15 when my TP hits 100%+
  
I did a lot of work on this page tonight trying to categorize the various items and add many items that were missing. I'm not 100% happy with the section titles or their ordering, so any suggestions would be welcome. I'm going to sleep before my edits start getting messy, but I'll continue when I next have some free time. Oh, and the spacing in the JSE sections seemed like a good idea at the time but it looks ugly to me now... If you happen to be bored, try removing the empty rows and alternating between light and dark blue backgrounds. --[[User:Ichthyos|Ichthyos]] 07:03, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
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==  Undocumented Latent Effects Triggers section needs to be updated ==
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I can't edit it right now but if anyone else can, can anyone do some editing? More than half of the items in the "Undocumented" section have been figured out, if anyone can move that to the right sections, that'd be great. [[User:Petco|Petco]] 07:06, 28 July 2007 (CDT)
If this started as a copy/paste from another source, please link to it in a References section at the bottom. --[[User:Valyana|Valyana]] 17:19, 15 July 2006 (EDT)
 

Latest revision as of 01:09, 21 July 2008


/Archive
/Archive1

General[edit]

I finally finished editing to the bottom of the page, but the article's not quite complete or 100% polished yet.

  1. The introduction isn't all that great. Maybe someone more eloquent could spruce it up a little.
  2. The Rasetsu Armor set needs testing.
  3. The undocumented latents at the bottom need testing, of course.

# The TOC is a little unwieldy. Maybe someone could replace it with something like what's on the Category:Relic Weapons or Auto-Translator pages.
# The elemental staves also work on debuffs (e.g., Ice Staff for Paralyze) but I'm not sure whether "potency" conveys that. Should their hidden effects include a "___ element magic accuracy +10/15%"? # Test MP drain of various rune weapons
# The food effect coloring is sort of nice, and gives those two lines external consistency, but on this particular page I think the extra colors make it a little too busy, especially while trying to convey which effects are changed from the normal food effects. The red text within links also conflicts with the normal wiki coloring of broken internal links.

--Ichthyos 16:00, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Possible Additions?[edit]

Ace's Locket? Possibly needs to be used with Ace's Helm? --Jinxs 16:39, 2 November 2006 (EST)


got another for ya,

Princely Sword

so i'm told the +/-'s invert if the wielder is rank10 sandy.

   * Strength +4
   * Vitality -6
   * Charisma -6
   * Enmity -6

to

   * Strength -4
   * Vitality +6
   * Charisma +6
   * Enmity +6


just passing the info along.
it sells for quite a bit, so i'm willing to bet to does SOMETHING
--uberfuzzy 03:20, 19 July 2006 (EDT)


Hmm, I think the Princely Sword hidden stat swap effect is just a rumor. I haven't seen hidden effects on any other KS99 weapons, and haven't come across any documented proof of the effect. If you find some, please post it! ^^ --Ichthyos 06:42, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

dont have any 1st hand proof, it came up in conversation while doing the ks99 run in h.peak.
someone also said it might have to be elvaan also, again, not sure.
i'd rather post it, and have it debunked then have people wonder.
(although it does make you wonder why it sells for so much, for just +4 str with such hefty penalties)
--uberfuzzy 14:56, 24 July 2006 (EDT)


I believe the Princely Sword's high price is due to the following factors:

It's a KS99 drop, so supply remains relatively low.
It's the highest damage sword (with a STR bonus to boot) for PLDs who are collecting DD gear.

--Ichthyos 02:45, 26 July 2006 (EDT)


Company Fleuret? Maybe similar to Company Sword?

--Gahoo 14:20, 25 September 2006 (EDT)


The Minstrel's Ring latent is activated below 76% HP, not 75% HP, so you can have it active without being in yellow. I suspect that all the other rings work the same way, but haven't tested. --Valyana 10:52, 9 March 2007 (EST)

HP/TP triggers[edit]

All the triggers listed as ≤xx% seem unlikely to me, as they suggest that, say, if something is triggered at ≤50% and I have 1000 HP, then a latent will be active at 499 and 500 HP but not 501. I think it more likely that the latent is active at 499 but not 500, which would be <50%. If it's active at 509 but not 510, then I think it's clearer to write <51%.

Similarly, I believe that the triggers listed as ≤100% TP are actually <100% TP.

So far I've only corrected this for the L50 rings which I've personally tested. --Valyana 00:12, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Perdu wand[edit]

Although I am not sure how to measure the accuracy on this item being a WHM and everything I use it on has low evasion to begin with I have realized that my attack does go up by 15 (five higher then my Darksteel maul) when I have less then 100% (obviously)but there is also the reduction by 15 when my TP hits 100%+

Undocumented Latent Effects Triggers section needs to be updated[edit]

I can't edit it right now but if anyone else can, can anyone do some editing? More than half of the items in the "Undocumented" section have been figured out, if anyone can move that to the right sections, that'd be great. Petco 07:06, 28 July 2007 (CDT)